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hello this is richard saunders producer

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and host of the skeptic zone this week's

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episode

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is dedicated to the memory of our former

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reporter the wonderful

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shelly stocken shirley passed away on

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saturday the 26th

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of june 2021 she was surrounded by

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family

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and we send our heartfelt condolences to

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her friends

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and to her family shelley's reports were

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interesting

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funny and educational her work in the

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skeptical community really did make a

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difference

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and she was an absolute delight to know

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and to work with thank you shelley

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from the team at the skeptic zone

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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from australia

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for science and reason

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 665 on the 4th of july

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2021

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and as you know this episode is

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dedicated to the memory of

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shelly stockin and so we're going to

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kick off this week's episode with the

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report from shelley with her segment

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in uh 2016 take stock with

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shelly stocken and it was one of

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shelley's early reports about

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demonic possession and for those of you

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who

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are new to the show and haven't heard

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the reports shelly did for us i think

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you'll be very impressed by her style

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her recording and her information

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following that it's the

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australian skeptic's newsletter what's

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caught the skeptical eye of

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tim mendom this week we shall find out

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and to round off the show we dive once

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again into trove

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and because it's the 4th of july here in

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australia when this show is going out

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i thought we'd look for references in

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australian newspapers to the word

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psychic

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and america in the same

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report but that's all for me at the

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moment i'm going to make myself

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an extra special cup of coffee this week

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because

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apart from anything else what indeed

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shelley to

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thousands of people were her wonderful

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little poems

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about the coffee and while i do that i

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hope you enjoy

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interesting claims questioning

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take stock with shelly stocken

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[Music]

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hi this is shelly stocken and today i'm

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talking about demons

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[Music]

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in a recent self-guided tour of the

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internet i came across a page entitled

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how to differentiate demonic possession

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from schizophrenia

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this will be fun i thought lots of head

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spinning and spewing on bystanders

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but as i read on i realised it wasn't

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much fun at all

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this page was a serious guide for

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interpreting the unusual behavior of a

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loved one and making a spiritual

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diagnosis

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i was stunned to learn that in some

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religious circles

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demonic possession is still considered a

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reasonable explanation for mental

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illness

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the page i found was basically a summary

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of a chapter in a book

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called strength for his people by

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stephen waterhouse

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the pastor at westcliff bible church in

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texas

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the church's website describes the book

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as a biblical perspective

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on mental illnesses and other family

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problems

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stephen waterhouse has a doctor of

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ministry from dallas theological

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seminary

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and a master of theology in hebrew and

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greek from capital seminary near

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washington dc

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as well as undergraduate degrees in

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social sciences from spring arbor

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university

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rapids for michigan

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so he seems adequately qualified to be a

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church pastor and a social scientist

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his interest in mental health stems

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largely from his experience with his

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brother

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who was diagnosed with schizophrenia in

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his teens

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i'm certain that waterhouse's intentions

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are good

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and he only wants to help people to

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reconcile their belief in supernatural

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beings and the hardship of mental

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illness

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he has first-hand experience of living

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with and caring for a seriously ill

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person

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and wants to provide support for others

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going through the same experience

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but if as they say the road to hell is

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paved with good intentions

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this guy is headed southward i have no

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doubt religion provides many troubled

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people and their families with great

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comfort

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but it has no place in diagnosing mental

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illness

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so let's take a look at what waterhouse

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has to say about how to differentiate

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between schizophrenia

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and demonic possession he conveniently

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breaks the distinction into six factors

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one attraction to versus aversion to

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religion

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according to waterhouse possessed people

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can't stand talking about christ

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but mentally ill people are fine with it

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in many cases even enthusiastically

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devout

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if the affected person is comfortable

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when the discussion turns to jesus

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doesn't object to an exorcism or shows a

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keen interest in religion

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then demonic possession is to be ruled

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out

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earlier in the chapter the author

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describes the behavior of his brother

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during a schizophrenic episode

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he says i saw my brother ripping up a

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bible and smashing christian wall

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decorations

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this seems to contradict his assertion

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that people with schizophrenia

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are friendly to jesus but that's not the

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only problem with this point

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it fails to take into account the

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person's religious leanings before they

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started showing symptoms

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do people who have no religion suddenly

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become religious when they become

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mentally ill

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or suddenly become hostile towards

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religious figures when possessed

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is it the same pattern for people of

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different religions what sort of demons

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possess a buddhist an

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atheist or a muslim is religious belief

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correlated with mental illness

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so many questions the second factor of

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waterhouse's analysis

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is irrational speech versus rational

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speech

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waterhouse says in new testament

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accounts involving demons

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the demons spoke in a rational manner

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untreated people with schizophrenia will

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often speak in nonsense and jump

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rapidly between unrelated topics

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he says that in cases where the affected

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person makes sense we should lean

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towards demonic involvements

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this seems ridiculously simplistic

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if the words don't make sense the

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patient is sick if they do make sense

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the patient is possessed

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and what text does the author refer to

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for his diagnostic standard

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the new testament of the bible i don't

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know much about psychiatry but i'm

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pretty sure the bible has been

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superseded as a diagnostic tool

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moving on to the third factor of

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differentiation

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ordinary learning versus supernatural

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knowledge

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when you're a demon taking up residence

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in a terrestrial host

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you have the ability to communicate

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through the body you've possessed

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as a result possessed people may be able

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to express knowledge and display

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abilities of which they have no prior

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learning

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waterhouse says those with a mental

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illness have no such ability to know

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facts they have not acquired by normal

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means of learning

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the examples provided in the book are

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clairvoyance and

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xenoglossy or the ability to speak in a

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language not known by the speaker

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the author doesn't provide any

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references for these examples so we are

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left to rely on his assurance that they

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actually happen

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factor number four in this guide to

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mental illness or possession

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is normal versus occultic phenomena

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waterhouse says there is an aspect to

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demon activity

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that is just plain spooky no argument

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from me there

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he goes on to say if there are

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occurrences of poltergeists

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levitations transfers telepathy

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and these cannot be ruled out as being

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optical illusions or fraudulent displays

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then one is not dealing with ordinary

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schizophrenia

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in a tidy example of circular reasoning

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this factor essentially says

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that if there are paranormal phenomena

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present then something paranormal is

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going on

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this factor relies on the presumption of

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demonic possession as a possible

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diagnosis

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at least he suggests that apparently

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paranormal phenomena could be optical

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illusions or fraud

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but he stops short of applying the same

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level of skepticism to the idea of

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demonic possession itself

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0.5 in waterhouse's analysis is the

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claim to be possessed

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and this one makes a little sense he

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says

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authors who have clinical experience

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both with demon possession and mental

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illness

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believe those who claim to be possessed

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are very likely

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not possessed i completely agree that

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people who claim to be possessed

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probably aren't but that's only because

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i don't think demonic possession is real

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waterhouse's reasoning is different he

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claims that demons are secretive

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critters

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and don't like to brag about taking over

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someone's body

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so if someone is truly possessed they're

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unlikely to admit it

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which leaves it up to observers to judge

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whether or not demonic possession is the

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cause of their behavior

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and surely only observers who already

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consider demonic possession a

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possibility

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are likely to decide that someone is

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possessed

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how this distinction is helpful to

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people with mental illness escapes me

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completely

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the final factor of distinction between

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mental illness and demonic possession

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is the effect of therapy

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it states if prayer solves the problem

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then it was probably not schizophrenia

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if medicine helps alleviate the problem

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it was not demon possession

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again i completely agree with these

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statements

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i agree that if prayer solves a problem

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then that problem was not schizophrenia

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it probably wasn't a broken leg cystitis

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or world poverty either

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in fact prayer has a pretty poor record

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00:11:01,190 --> 00:10:59,600
for fixing things statistically speaking

294
00:11:03,030 --> 00:11:01,200
relying on the effects of prayer to

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00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:03,040
alleviate someone's real and immediate

296
00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:05,920
suffering is pretty irresponsible

297
00:11:09,829 --> 00:11:07,920
if praying is your thing knock yourself

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00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:09,839
out but maybe also

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seek a professional advice

300
00:11:16,949 --> 00:11:15,040
i also agree that if medicine helps

301
00:11:19,670 --> 00:11:16,959
alleviate the problem it was not

302
00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:19,680
demon possession in fact you could take

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00:11:23,990 --> 00:11:22,320
medicine out of the equation altogether

304
00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:24,000
and i'd still be satisfied that demons

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00:11:28,150 --> 00:11:26,240
were never involved

306
00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:28,160
including the possibility of demonic

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possession in any assessment of mental

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illness

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00:11:35,269 --> 00:11:34,240
does nobody any good if possession is

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assumed

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00:11:39,509 --> 00:11:38,240
effective treatment can be delayed in

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extreme cases

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00:11:43,750 --> 00:11:41,600
this could mean a rapid escalation if

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the condition is left unchecked

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which can be dangerous for the sufferer

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and for the people around them

317
00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:50,079
a diagnosis of demonic possession could

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in fact be the trigger for worsening

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00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:54,320
symptoms

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imagine being in a state of distress

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confusion or fear

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00:12:01,990 --> 00:12:00,240
because of a mental illness only to be

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00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:02,000
told that your condition is the result

324
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of an evil spiritual parasite

325
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:07,680
that's hardly going to improve your mood

326
00:12:12,150 --> 00:12:10,399
and when an exorcism inevitably fails to

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00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:12,160
rid you of your inner turmoil

328
00:12:16,230 --> 00:12:15,040
what then finding out you're possessed

329
00:12:18,310 --> 00:12:16,240
is bad

330
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:18,320
discovering relief is impossible can

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only increase distress

332
00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:22,959
confusion and fear why do demons even

333
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:24,880
need to come into it

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00:12:28,629 --> 00:12:26,720
believers seem to be able to explain

335
00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:28,639
other bad things without resorting to

336
00:12:32,629 --> 00:12:30,720
evil spirits

337
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:32,639
some hardships are even attributed to

338
00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:34,480
god himself

339
00:12:39,430 --> 00:12:37,360
if fire flood famine and flesh-eating

340
00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:39,440
viruses can be part of god's plan why

341
00:12:44,310 --> 00:12:41,200
not mental illness

342
00:12:46,310 --> 00:12:44,320
why is that left to demons sky daddy

343
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:46,320
seems comfortable inflicting boils and

344
00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:48,079
blindness and botulism

345
00:12:52,949 --> 00:12:51,040
but outsources brain work to beelzebub

346
00:12:55,350 --> 00:12:52,959
it doesn't make sense

347
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:55,360
i don't see why modern psychiatry can't

348
00:12:59,509 --> 00:12:56,000
exist

349
00:13:02,310 --> 00:12:59,519
within a religious framework it's a long

350
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:02,320
time since i believed in god and jesus

351
00:13:05,509 --> 00:13:04,240
but even in my happiest clappiest

352
00:13:07,590 --> 00:13:05,519
christian days

353
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:07,600
i still thought human's ability to think

354
00:13:12,629 --> 00:13:09,760
and learn and analyze our world was part

355
00:13:14,389 --> 00:13:12,639
of the big guy's long-term plan

356
00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:14,399
the idea that some of us could study

357
00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:16,480
humans closely enough to diagnose and

358
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:17,920
treat mental illness

359
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:20,639
and make life better in a scientific way

360
00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:22,880
fit easily into my understanding of what

361
00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:25,440
god wanted us to do

362
00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:27,360
but the idea that some mental illness

363
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:29,120
might still be thrown into the

364
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:31,760
possessed by a demon basket makes me

365
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,069
[Music]

366
00:13:49,470 --> 00:13:47,590
and now a note from our friends at the

367
00:13:51,670 --> 00:13:49,480
canberra skeptics at canberra

368
00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:51,680
skeptics.org

369
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:53,360
canberra's skeptics proudly presents

370
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:55,440
pack away your colanders

371
00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:57,839
law money and the church of the flying

372
00:14:02,230 --> 00:13:59,360
spaghetti monster

373
00:14:03,430 --> 00:14:02,240
and this will be a zoom talk by dr bruce

374
00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:03,440
bayer arnold

375
00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:06,880
on monday the 12th of july at 6 pm

376
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:11,360
camera time pastafarianism

377
00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:13,279
also known as the church of the flying

378
00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:14,800
spaghetti monster

379
00:14:18,629 --> 00:14:17,519
seems no more bizarre than many belief

380
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:18,639
systems

381
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:22,079
unlike many established faiths it hasn't

382
00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:24,240
encouraged its adherence to engage in

383
00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:26,399
any crimes against humanity

384
00:14:31,030 --> 00:14:29,440
unlike the church of the new faith also

385
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:31,040
known as scientology

386
00:14:34,949 --> 00:14:33,120
it hasn't been accused of being a

387
00:14:36,710 --> 00:14:34,959
billion dollar scam

388
00:14:38,150 --> 00:14:36,720
earlier this year however the south

389
00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:38,160
australian government

390
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:40,240
yet again refused an application to

391
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:41,920
register the monster

392
00:14:47,189 --> 00:14:44,720
as an incorporated association this

393
00:14:48,990 --> 00:14:47,199
presentation critiques that refusal

394
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:49,000
notes uneven recognition of

395
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:51,519
pastafarianism outside australia

396
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:55,199
and asks whether the a.c.t government

397
00:15:00,310 --> 00:14:58,320
would be kinder than in south australia

398
00:15:02,389 --> 00:15:00,320
now this does sound like an interesting

399
00:15:03,949 --> 00:15:02,399
talk and you can

400
00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:03,959
find out more by visiting

401
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:05,519
canberraskeptics.org

402
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:07,680
checking out their facebook page which

403
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:09,440
is canberra skeptics

404
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:12,720
or follow them on twitter at

405
00:15:29,030 --> 00:15:16,480
c b r skeptics

406
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:38,150
[Music]

407
00:15:41,829 --> 00:15:40,240
now it's time to see what tim mendenham

408
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:41,839
has prepared for us

409
00:15:48,069 --> 00:15:44,160
via the australian skeptics newsletter

410
00:15:49,749 --> 00:15:48,079
newsletter number 126

411
00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:49,759
and you too can get this newsletter

412
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:52,160
delivered to your inbox every other week

413
00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:56,240
by subscribing at skeptics.com.edu

414
00:16:00,949 --> 00:15:59,120
hi all it says the countdown is on for

415
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:00,959
skepticon in november

416
00:16:07,509 --> 00:16:04,160
the multinational face-to-face

417
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:07,519
live streaming super event no hyperbole

418
00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:08,560
intended

419
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:11,920
keep your eyes ears and fingers peeled

420
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:14,560
for the latest information in other

421
00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:15,360
topics

422
00:16:19,670 --> 00:16:18,160
obviously lots of covert news still more

423
00:16:22,629 --> 00:16:19,680
on ufos

424
00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:22,639
and the growing contingent of animals

425
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:24,959
that can pick football results

426
00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:28,560
or not as the case may be read on

427
00:16:36,069 --> 00:16:34,320
tim yes tim that's exactly what we'll do

428
00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:36,079
and when you receive the newsletter in

429
00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:38,639
your inbox all these news items

430
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:41,279
are accompanied by the link for more

431
00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:42,090
information

432
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:46,240
[Music]

433
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:49,600
skepticon register your interest now

434
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:51,440
registrations of interest are now open

435
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:52,800
for skepticon

436
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:55,519
the 2021 australian skeptic's annual

437
00:16:59,110 --> 00:16:57,040
national convention

438
00:17:01,189 --> 00:16:59,120
which this year will be held on november

439
00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:01,199
20th to the 21st

440
00:17:04,949 --> 00:17:02,800
it will be a joint event held by

441
00:17:07,669 --> 00:17:04,959
australian skeptics in sydney

442
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:07,679
and new zealand skeptics in wellington

443
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:09,439
with face to face and online

444
00:17:14,470 --> 00:17:11,520
participation available

445
00:17:17,110 --> 00:17:14,480
covert willing details of the speakers

446
00:17:19,189 --> 00:17:17,120
and ticket prices will be available soon

447
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:19,199
but in the meantime please register your

448
00:17:22,829 --> 00:17:20,170
interest at

449
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:22,839
[Music]

450
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:24,319
skepticon.org.au

451
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:25,760
so you can receive the latest

452
00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:28,319
information and the next item says

453
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:29,440
anti-vaxxers by

454
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:33,120
fake covert 19 jab certificates

455
00:17:38,070 --> 00:17:36,080
india a scheme has developed for

456
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:38,080
anti-vaxxers in russia

457
00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:41,120
where for 15 000 rubles you can get a

458
00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:41,600
fake

459
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:44,080
certificate to say you've received both

460
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:46,480
doses of the country's homegrown

461
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:50,160
sputnik 5 vaccine and their mandy

462
00:17:54,310 --> 00:17:50,960
vaxxers

463
00:17:56,590 --> 00:17:54,320
you have to admire their ethics u.s

464
00:17:59,830 --> 00:17:56,600
preliminary report on ufos

465
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:59,840
uaps you know uap

466
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:01,360
just doesn't have the same ring to it

467
00:18:05,890 --> 00:18:03,200
does it it just doesn't

468
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:05,900
look what's that oh it's a uap

469
00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:07,840
[Music]

470
00:18:11,350 --> 00:18:10,080
the anticipated report from the us

471
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:11,360
office of the director of national

472
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:12,320
intelligence

473
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:16,000
on threats raised by ufos uaps

474
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:18,320
has been released at least the

475
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:19,919
preliminary version

476
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:23,200
no one believers and skeptics alike

477
00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:26,320
seems particularly happy with it as it

478
00:18:29,350 --> 00:18:28,480
hedges its bets and is pretty

479
00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:29,360
non-committal

480
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:31,360
meanwhile maybe they should ask quote

481
00:18:37,590 --> 00:18:34,080
the world's most passionate ufo skeptic

482
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:37,600
and quote a profile of noted ufo

483
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:41,120
skeptic mick west and a story with more

484
00:18:43,909 --> 00:18:42,000
hyperlinks per

485
00:18:45,340 --> 00:18:43,919
square inch than anything we've seen

486
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:45,350
outside wikipedia

487
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:46,640
[Music]

488
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:49,760
world leaders covered 19 doubters an

489
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:50,640
interesting list

490
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:52,480
from kenya looking at political leaders

491
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:54,240
from around the world who have spread

492
00:19:00,470 --> 00:18:56,720
misinformation uncovered

493
00:19:01,110 --> 00:19:00,480
psychic crime pays u.s psychics who

494
00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:01,120
scammed

495
00:19:04,230 --> 00:19:03,280
over a million dollars from their

496
00:19:07,029 --> 00:19:04,240
victims

497
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:07,039
got five years probation and were

498
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:08,640
ordered to repay their victims

499
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:11,280
a portion of what they stole the victims

500
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:12,480
understandably

501
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:16,480
aren't happy overconfidence

502
00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:19,440
and conspiracy theories from ufos to

503
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:20,960
covert conspiracy theories

504
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:23,840
we all struggle with the quote truth out

505
00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:24,400
there

506
00:19:28,470 --> 00:19:26,880
end quote an article in the conversation

507
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:28,480
looks beyond common theories

508
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:31,919
of why people believe in the irrational

509
00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:34,080
us college students reaction to a

510
00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:36,160
supposed psychic event

511
00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:38,640
experiment using a supposed psychic

512
00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:40,080
contacting the dead

513
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:42,240
suggests that many adults are easily

514
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:44,720
convinced by a paranormal event

515
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:48,320
especially if it arouses their emotions

516
00:19:52,150 --> 00:19:51,120
code of practice on disinformation a

517
00:19:53,950 --> 00:19:52,160
legal perspective

518
00:19:55,510 --> 00:19:53,960
on the australian code of practice on

519
00:19:58,150 --> 00:19:55,520
disinformation

520
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:58,160
and misinformation which commenced on

521
00:20:02,310 --> 00:19:59,840
the 22nd of february

522
00:20:04,390 --> 00:20:02,320
this followed the australian government

523
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:04,400
asking digital platforms to develop a

524
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:05,120
voluntary

525
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:08,000
code to address disinformation and

526
00:20:11,830 --> 00:20:08,880
misinformation

527
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:11,840
and assist users in their services to

528
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:12,240
more

529
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:14,960
easily identify the reliable

530
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:16,400
trustworthiness and

531
00:20:20,070 --> 00:20:19,520
source of news content new south wales

532
00:20:22,630 --> 00:20:20,080
petition

533
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:22,640
on voluntary assisted dying victoria

534
00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:24,880
tasmania western australia and now

535
00:20:28,549 --> 00:20:26,720
south australia have all legalized

536
00:20:31,350 --> 00:20:28,559
voluntary assisted dying

537
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:31,360
as as new zealand it looks like

538
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:33,440
queensland may soon follow

539
00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:35,360
and the northern territory if it can get

540
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:37,280
past commonwealth restrictions

541
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:39,600
now the organization dying with dignity

542
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,600
in new south wales is asking for support

543
00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:43,440
with a petition to the new south wales

544
00:20:48,549 --> 00:20:45,200
government

545
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:48,559
the june 2021 issue of the skeptic

546
00:20:58,470 --> 00:20:54,950
here i have it in my hot hands here we

547
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:02,230
very good i'll have to read that later

548
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:04,080
it has a major feature on why people

549
00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:06,080
believe as opposed to

550
00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:08,480
what they believe what psychologists and

551
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:09,200
science

552
00:21:13,750 --> 00:21:11,360
leaders think the legal implications of

553
00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:13,760
holding beliefs the case studies of

554
00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:16,320
victory of belief over reason we also

555
00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:18,159
look at the myths and conspiracies

556
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:20,720
associated with the port arthur massacre

557
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:22,880
that tragic event which occurred 25

558
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:24,400
years ago

559
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:26,880
and the article everyone has been

560
00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:28,159
waiting for

561
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:30,720
a history of sydney university's

562
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:31,760
oxymetrical

563
00:21:36,870 --> 00:21:34,480
society the newsletter also goes on to

564
00:21:39,510 --> 00:21:36,880
list all the upcoming skeptical

565
00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:39,520
events from around the country including

566
00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:41,200
sydney skeptics in the pub queensland

567
00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:43,600
skeptics adelaide victoria gold coast

568
00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:44,320
perth

569
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:47,600
and canberra and now we come to items of

570
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:49,120
interest

571
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:51,440
psychic animals and football some years

572
00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:53,679
ago it was paul the psychic octopus

573
00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:55,679
picking the winners of the fifa world

574
00:21:59,350 --> 00:21:56,720
cup

575
00:22:01,190 --> 00:21:59,360
then it was muscles the alligator

576
00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:01,200
picking the results of the biden trump

577
00:22:03,430 --> 00:22:02,080
election

578
00:22:05,909 --> 00:22:03,440
now it looks like every animal is

579
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:05,919
getting into the act thanks to the euro

580
00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:06,799
cup

581
00:22:10,870 --> 00:22:08,559
i wonder if the skeptic's own cats could

582
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:10,880
give it a go where are they

583
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:13,200
an elephant picked germany would lose

584
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:14,240
against france

585
00:22:20,070 --> 00:22:17,760
correct yellow the psychic pony

586
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:20,080
predicted england would beat scotland

587
00:22:24,870 --> 00:22:21,200
that must have been a

588
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:24,880
hard choice except they drew neil nil

589
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:27,440
pony doesn't have a good track record it

590
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:28,960
earlier made a wrong choice in

591
00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:30,640
predicting a draw between england and

592
00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:31,360
croatia

593
00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:34,640
england won one nil a couple of psychic

594
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:37,120
otters

595
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:40,240
psychic were torn between england and

596
00:22:43,110 --> 00:22:41,360
scotland

597
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:43,120
boy the psychic lion who correctly

598
00:22:47,590 --> 00:22:46,000
called four early euro 2020 matches

599
00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:47,600
dipped out on some

600
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:49,840
following matches and apparently didn't

601
00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:50,880
do that well

602
00:22:57,990 --> 00:22:54,400
in the english league susie the pig

603
00:23:00,950 --> 00:22:58,000
picked the england win against croatia

604
00:23:02,230 --> 00:23:00,960
but prevaricated over a win for england

605
00:23:05,270 --> 00:23:02,240
over scotland

606
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:05,280
and achilles the psychic cat there you

607
00:23:09,750 --> 00:23:05,840
are

608
00:23:10,910 --> 00:23:09,760
psychic cats alright

609
00:23:13,750 --> 00:23:10,920
get your act together

610
00:23:16,789 --> 00:23:13,760
[Music]

611
00:23:18,710 --> 00:23:16,799
and achilles the psychic cat predicted

612
00:23:22,149 --> 00:23:18,720
italy would beat turkey

613
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:22,159
in a blowout and they did three nil

614
00:23:28,390 --> 00:23:25,360
obviously this is the animal to follow

615
00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:28,400
meanwhile odyssey the psychic lamb

616
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:30,720
predicted a win for hartlepool united

617
00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:32,159
against turkey united

618
00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:37,840
in a playoff final result they drew 1-1

619
00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:39,600
now there's lots more in that newsletter

620
00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:40,960
for you to enjoy

621
00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:44,240
but the final item is and a shock horror

622
00:23:48,789 --> 00:23:45,120
follow-up

623
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:48,799
psychic wrong ish last newsletter we

624
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:51,120
mentioned that psychic georgina walker

625
00:23:54,789 --> 00:23:53,760
predicting that radio shock jock carl

626
00:23:57,510 --> 00:23:54,799
sandylands

627
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:57,520
was supposedly going to drown during his

628
00:24:02,470 --> 00:23:59,039
birthday bash

629
00:24:03,590 --> 00:24:02,480
turns out the psychic was wrong it was a

630
00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:03,600
vision that she

631
00:24:09,990 --> 00:24:07,360
herself would face looming death

632
00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:10,000
she face planted at sandyland's party

633
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:11,840
she didn't land in the water but fell

634
00:24:16,830 --> 00:24:14,080
over when disembarking the cruise

635
00:24:19,510 --> 00:24:16,840
they were on seems like psychic

636
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:19,520
predictions can ricochet

637
00:24:22,390 --> 00:24:21,039
and there you are the latest newsletter

638
00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:22,400
from australian skeptics there's more in

639
00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:23,360
there to read

640
00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:25,039
and you can get that for yourself

641
00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:26,960
delivered every other week

642
00:24:40,870 --> 00:24:32,720
by subscribing at skeptics.com

643
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:43,590
hi this is heidi robertson from the

644
00:24:48,789 --> 00:24:46,320
northern rivers vaccination supporters

645
00:24:51,029 --> 00:24:48,799
we are a group of concerned citizens

646
00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:51,039
dedicated to promoting good science and

647
00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:52,960
common sense in our region

648
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:55,919
the far north coast of new south wales

649
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:58,400
this area famous for its natural beauty

650
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:00,320
and relaxed lifestyle

651
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:02,960
also has the lowest rates of vaccination

652
00:25:07,110 --> 00:25:04,720
in australia

653
00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:07,120
we are out to change that by challenging

654
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:09,200
the myths and misinformation

655
00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:11,520
and by providing good evidence-based

656
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:14,080
information to the community

657
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:16,080
we'd love for you no matter where you

658
00:25:20,149 --> 00:25:17,200
are in the world

659
00:25:21,430 --> 00:25:20,159
to join our fight please visit our

660
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:21,440
webpage

661
00:25:28,549 --> 00:25:26,960
at www.nrvs.info

662
00:25:30,149 --> 00:25:28,559
we also have a link there to our

663
00:25:33,669 --> 00:25:30,159
facebook page

664
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:33,679
tweet us at nrvax supporters

665
00:25:38,230 --> 00:25:36,960
that's vax and check us out on wikipedia

666
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:38,240
by searching for

667
00:25:41,980 --> 00:25:41,360
northern rivers vaccination supporters

668
00:25:55,420 --> 00:25:41,990
thank you

669
00:25:55,430 --> 00:26:01,350
[Music]

670
00:26:07,789 --> 00:26:03,669
now it's time once again to go back to

671
00:26:11,269 --> 00:26:09,830
trove.nla.gov.eu the online resource

672
00:26:13,830 --> 00:26:11,279
from the australian government and the

673
00:26:15,990 --> 00:26:13,840
national library of australia digitized

674
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:16,000
newspapers articles gazettes reports

675
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:18,240
magazines periodicals

676
00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:25,120
journals and so on

677
00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:27,760
and there is just so much to learn from

678
00:26:32,149 --> 00:26:29,120
these pages

679
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:32,159
historical reports we turn

680
00:26:35,909 --> 00:26:34,720
we turn to the mail from adelaide south

681
00:26:38,950 --> 00:26:35,919
australia

682
00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:38,960
dated the 24th of december 1927

683
00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:41,360
and incidentally in honor of the 4th of

684
00:26:45,909 --> 00:26:43,200
july this week we are looking for

685
00:26:49,029 --> 00:26:45,919
references to psychic

686
00:26:53,660 --> 00:26:49,039
and america psychic radio

687
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:53,670
unique american station

688
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:54,960
[Music]

689
00:26:59,470 --> 00:26:57,039
the most remarkable radio station in the

690
00:27:03,110 --> 00:26:59,480
world is stationed

691
00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:03,120
pthc broadcasting from chicago

692
00:27:07,029 --> 00:27:05,760
under the auspices of leading

693
00:27:10,390 --> 00:27:07,039
spiritualists

694
00:27:13,990 --> 00:27:10,400
the station has no power transmitters

695
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:14,000
and receiving sets tuning in requires

696
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:17,520
no tubes or loudspeakers on three nights

697
00:27:22,549 --> 00:27:18,480
a week

698
00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:22,559
p t h c transmits

699
00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:26,000
psychic waves only

700
00:27:29,830 --> 00:27:28,640
that's the story and the promoters of

701
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:29,840
the station

702
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:32,640
stick to it the progressive thinking

703
00:27:36,389 --> 00:27:34,080
healing center

704
00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:36,399
the association operating the station

705
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:37,120
calls it

706
00:27:42,230 --> 00:27:40,320
psychic radio they say it is a modern

707
00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:42,240
phase of spiritualistic

708
00:27:47,350 --> 00:27:46,559
endeavor in which a universal wavelength

709
00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:47,360
attuned

710
00:27:50,789 --> 00:27:50,320
to the minds of disciples of mental

711
00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:50,799
healing

712
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:53,840
is used they broadcast at 7pm every

713
00:27:58,029 --> 00:27:55,840
monday wednesday and saturday

714
00:27:59,590 --> 00:27:58,039
the message usually being the

715
00:28:02,710 --> 00:27:59,600
reiteration

716
00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:02,720
of a health bringing thought somewhat

717
00:28:06,470 --> 00:28:03,760
similar to the

718
00:28:09,430 --> 00:28:06,480
cow formula and this is a word i've not

719
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:09,440
seen before c-o-u-e

720
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:12,320
not sure what that is anyway those at

721
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:13,600
the receiving end

722
00:28:18,549 --> 00:28:16,480
are supposed to tune in by concentrating

723
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:18,559
encouraged by the success of their

724
00:28:24,950 --> 00:28:20,480
experiment with psychic radio

725
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:24,960
the spiritualists in charge of ptch

726
00:28:29,350 --> 00:28:27,120
announced that within a year they

727
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:29,360
expected to be able to dial

728
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:32,640
heaven upon their radio and receive

729
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:34,559
in this way direct evidence of

730
00:28:39,029 --> 00:28:36,480
immortality

731
00:28:40,149 --> 00:28:39,039
and our next report comes to us from the

732
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:40,159
sydney mail

733
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:43,279
and new south wales advertiser dated the

734
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:46,559
3rd of february 1909

735
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:48,960
strange psychic act of an american

736
00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:50,240
mechanic

737
00:28:54,549 --> 00:28:53,520
some startling manifestations of psychic

738
00:28:56,950 --> 00:28:54,559
phenomena

739
00:28:57,669 --> 00:28:56,960
have been given in new york by a young

740
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:57,679
mechanic

741
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:01,039
named frank e fosket before

742
00:29:04,070 --> 00:29:03,360
two eminent professors and a number of

743
00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:04,080
students of

744
00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:07,360
psychical research the seances were

745
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:09,200
given at the homes of

746
00:29:15,269 --> 00:29:12,640
professor p f hall at boston

747
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:15,279
and professor william james at cambridge

748
00:29:18,310 --> 00:29:16,320
massachusetts

749
00:29:19,669 --> 00:29:18,320
professor james is a professor of

750
00:29:21,590 --> 00:29:19,679
philosophy at harvard

751
00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:21,600
and formerly occupied the chair of

752
00:29:25,510 --> 00:29:23,360
psychology both men

753
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:25,520
are prominent members of the society for

754
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:26,880
psychical research

755
00:29:31,350 --> 00:29:29,520
and every possible precaution was taken

756
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:31,360
to prevent fraud

757
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:33,760
the test conditions of the seances were

758
00:29:38,230 --> 00:29:35,039
made

759
00:29:40,870 --> 00:29:38,240
unusually severe

760
00:29:41,669 --> 00:29:40,880
at the first seance at professor hall's

761
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:41,679
residence

762
00:29:48,149 --> 00:29:45,039
forskot sat in the center of the room

763
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:48,159
before a small table and performed every

764
00:29:51,909 --> 00:29:48,640
feat

765
00:29:54,870 --> 00:29:51,919
of a hindu fakir he then

766
00:29:56,710 --> 00:29:54,880
went through the fire test first he

767
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:56,720
allowed the flames from

768
00:30:02,950 --> 00:29:59,840
matches to curl around his fingers then

769
00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:02,960
he held both hands over a kerosene lamp

770
00:30:08,630 --> 00:30:06,000
until the smoke completely blackened

771
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:08,640
the chimney the climax was reached when

772
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:10,240
he poured a quart of

773
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:14,480
alcohol into a basin set it on fire

774
00:30:18,710 --> 00:30:17,600
and bathed his hands in the blistering

775
00:30:21,190 --> 00:30:18,720
liquid

776
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:21,200
for ten minutes also spreading the

777
00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:23,200
flaming alcohol over his face and

778
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:26,640
arms immediately after the conclusion of

779
00:30:29,990 --> 00:30:27,760
this test

780
00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:30,000
physicians who were present examined

781
00:30:33,990 --> 00:30:31,840
forskot carefully

782
00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:34,000
and were unable to find the slightest

783
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:35,760
trace of burns

784
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:38,960
or blisters forskot said the flames did

785
00:30:42,789 --> 00:30:39,760
not cause

786
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:42,799
any burning sensation but only a

787
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:44,000
pleasant feeling

788
00:30:48,789 --> 00:30:46,799
of warmth and just a quick aside from me

789
00:30:52,230 --> 00:30:48,799
this sounds very much like a

790
00:30:53,669 --> 00:30:52,240
physics experiment in science or a

791
00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:53,679
carnival trick or something like that

792
00:30:56,549 --> 00:30:55,120
but not being there at the time it's

793
00:30:58,950 --> 00:30:56,559
hard to say

794
00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:58,960
the second seance was of such a

795
00:31:03,269 --> 00:31:00,399
startling nature

796
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:03,279
that professors hall and james declined

797
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:04,000
to discuss

798
00:31:07,909 --> 00:31:06,480
it until the phenomena have been

799
00:31:09,830 --> 00:31:07,919
repeated

800
00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:09,840
but another person who was present has

801
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:12,080
given a brief description of forskot's

802
00:31:16,870 --> 00:31:13,360
powers

803
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:16,880
he declared that forskot was completely

804
00:31:23,269 --> 00:31:20,159
de-material and added

805
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:23,279
he seemed to dissolve into the air as we

806
00:31:27,190 --> 00:31:24,240
watched him

807
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:27,200
he was gone 41 seconds then he

808
00:31:31,590 --> 00:31:29,120
materialized again

809
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:31,600
the spectacle was so startling that we

810
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:33,760
were absolutely afraid

811
00:31:39,269 --> 00:31:36,880
and we lost sight of the test conditions

812
00:31:40,149 --> 00:31:39,279
we have asked him to appear before us

813
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:40,159
again

814
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:43,120
it seems unbelievable but he certainly

815
00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:43,840
seemed

816
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:46,720
to be dematerializing we do not know

817
00:31:50,230 --> 00:31:47,679
what to think

818
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:50,240
forsket appears in a passive state

819
00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:51,760
during the tests

820
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:53,919
those who examined him did not believe

821
00:31:58,630 --> 00:31:55,200
that hypnotism

822
00:32:01,669 --> 00:31:58,640
accounts for his feats they consider

823
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:01,679
that he possesses some hitherto unknown

824
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:10,389
and next we visit the pages of the daily

825
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:12,399
mail from brisbane queensland

826
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:18,000
dated saturday the 18th of august 1923

827
00:32:22,549 --> 00:32:21,120
far ahead of australia exclusive to the

828
00:32:25,669 --> 00:32:22,559
daily mail

829
00:32:26,789 --> 00:32:25,679
london thursday melbourne and san

830
00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:26,799
francisco

831
00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:30,320
are the most hopelessly material cities

832
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:33,200
in the world such was the dictum of sir

833
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:35,279
arthur conan doyle

834
00:32:39,509 --> 00:32:38,000
whose experiences on a lecture tour of

835
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:39,519
australia and new zealand

836
00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:42,799
two years ago have been extended but not

837
00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:43,840
obliterated

838
00:32:50,950 --> 00:32:47,519
by an american tour with lady doyle

839
00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:50,960
whence they have just returned

840
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:53,200
in a special interview sir arthur made

841
00:32:57,029 --> 00:32:54,159
it clear

842
00:32:59,830 --> 00:32:57,039
that his impression of melbourne as a

843
00:33:03,190 --> 00:32:59,840
city lacking in psychic responsiveness

844
00:33:06,549 --> 00:33:03,200
still persists but he has a good

845
00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:06,559
word for sydney in this respect

846
00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:09,600
in the presence of his wife who listened

847
00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:12,480
attentively to his remarks which she

848
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:14,640
reinforced with nods of agreement

849
00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:16,799
only joining in when she thought his

850
00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:18,480
criticism of melbourne

851
00:33:22,830 --> 00:33:21,200
and its people lacked sufficient force

852
00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:22,840
so arthur chatted

853
00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:26,080
interestingly in the sitting room of the

854
00:33:30,630 --> 00:33:27,760
london hotel

855
00:33:31,430 --> 00:33:30,640
where he is staying prior to departing

856
00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:31,440
for his

857
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:35,760
country home at crow borough

858
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:39,440
solid scientific basis america

859
00:33:43,990 --> 00:33:42,480
is far ahead of australia in knowledge

860
00:33:46,950 --> 00:33:44,000
of psychic matters

861
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:46,960
said sir arthur conan doyle the american

862
00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:47,519
press

863
00:33:54,310 --> 00:33:50,880
treats spiritualism with dignity and

864
00:33:56,310 --> 00:33:54,320
restraint as is the case in sydney

865
00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:56,320
which is on the same level as the large

866
00:33:59,669 --> 00:33:57,760
american cities

867
00:34:01,750 --> 00:33:59,679
other australian cities particularly

868
00:34:02,870 --> 00:34:01,760
melbourne seem reactionary in their

869
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:02,880
views

870
00:34:06,310 --> 00:34:05,519
they failed to realize the vast

871
00:34:09,190 --> 00:34:06,320
importance

872
00:34:10,629 --> 00:34:09,200
of the subject and its solid scientific

873
00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:10,639
basis

874
00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:13,520
i hope this is merely a passing phase

875
00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:14,399
after all

876
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:16,399
the mentality of the english-speaking

877
00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:18,000
races must be the same

878
00:34:22,149 --> 00:34:19,919
the only difference lying in an

879
00:34:25,430 --> 00:34:22,159
opportunity of hearing a reasonable

880
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:25,440
undignified presentation of the subject

881
00:34:30,069 --> 00:34:28,480
i have just delivered 40 lectures in the

882
00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:30,079
united states and canada

883
00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:32,879
to crowded audiences in 30 cities where

884
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:33,280
there were

885
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:36,240
vigorous newspaper discussions but only

886
00:34:39,750 --> 00:34:37,440
one journal took

887
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:39,760
a vigorous line against me an

888
00:34:43,990 --> 00:34:41,919
experienced journalist admitted

889
00:34:45,030 --> 00:34:44,000
quote we cannot treat the subject as

890
00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:45,040
irreverence

891
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:47,599
as formally the public would not stand

892
00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:48,159
for it

893
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:51,599
so arthur conan doyle considers the

894
00:34:55,349 --> 00:34:52,560
strength

895
00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:55,359
of the adherence of psychic inquiry in

896
00:34:59,430 --> 00:34:56,399
america

897
00:35:02,710 --> 00:34:59,440
does not lie in the churches which show

898
00:35:06,550 --> 00:35:02,720
little sign of taking advantage of quote

899
00:35:10,390 --> 00:35:06,560
this new flood of the god sent knowledge

900
00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:10,400
end quote but in seances in the higher

901
00:35:15,109 --> 00:35:12,240
ranks of society

902
00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:15,119
the most intelligent reception here has

903
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:16,000
been from the church

904
00:35:21,349 --> 00:35:18,480
of england which has held out a friendly

905
00:35:24,470 --> 00:35:21,359
hand to spiritualists

906
00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:24,480
oscar wilde messages

907
00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:26,880
do you think spiritual communications

908
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:28,960
with the late president harding

909
00:35:32,470 --> 00:35:31,680
is possible sir arthur conan doyle was

910
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:32,480
asked

911
00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:35,040
i have had hundreds of evidences of

912
00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:36,240
psychic power

913
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:39,280
he replied but the general public does

914
00:35:43,990 --> 00:35:41,520
not understand that human beings

915
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:44,000
cannot get into touch with spirits they

916
00:35:49,030 --> 00:35:46,800
must wait until the spirit desires to

917
00:35:51,589 --> 00:35:49,040
get in touch with them we can only

918
00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:51,599
prepare conditions to make this possible

919
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:54,160
i have not studied the evidence of the

920
00:35:58,150 --> 00:35:56,720
reported recent spiritual conversations

921
00:36:01,030 --> 00:35:58,160
with oscar wilde

922
00:36:02,470 --> 00:36:01,040
but some years ago messages which were

923
00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:02,480
an excellent example of

924
00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:05,920
his style were received describing

925
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:09,520
the arctic seas as an ocean

926
00:36:15,190 --> 00:36:13,200
of foaming jasper ask why san francisco

927
00:36:18,069 --> 00:36:15,200
and melbourne were so

928
00:36:19,829 --> 00:36:18,079
materialistic so arthur conan doyle said

929
00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:19,839
possibly it was because both

930
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:22,960
were seaports but did not explain

931
00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:24,640
either physically or otherwise how

932
00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:26,960
sydney maintains such a high psychic

933
00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:27,680
level

934
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:31,920
despite the handicap of its waterfront

935
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:34,240
what an unusual story it's interesting

936
00:36:37,109 --> 00:36:35,280
how

937
00:36:38,790 --> 00:36:37,119
more and more sir arthur conan doyle

938
00:36:40,710 --> 00:36:38,800
pops up in these pages when we're

939
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:40,720
looking at psychic matters

940
00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:44,160
and i knew he well to be blunt believed

941
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:44,480
in

942
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:46,640
fairies at the bottom of the garden as

943
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:48,640
in the cottingsley fairies

944
00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:52,320
but he was really deeply into psychic uh

945
00:36:57,430 --> 00:36:55,520
matters and goings on and now let's look

946
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:57,440
into the pages of the career mail

947
00:37:02,790 --> 00:36:59,680
from brisbane queensland dated the 20th

948
00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:02,800
of november 1935

949
00:37:08,230 --> 00:37:05,920
american uses psychic research

950
00:37:09,990 --> 00:37:08,240
a remarkable statement has been made by

951
00:37:12,470 --> 00:37:10,000
mr stanley beach

952
00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:12,480
the aeronautical editor of the

953
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:15,200
scientific american magazine

954
00:37:20,870 --> 00:37:18,240
and who claims that he has a system for

955
00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:20,880
locating missing aviators by means of

956
00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:23,520
psychic research he told a

957
00:37:29,030 --> 00:37:26,000
representative of the australian

958
00:37:32,710 --> 00:37:29,040
slash associated press that he

959
00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:32,720
employed a male german medium to attempt

960
00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:33,839
to locate

961
00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:37,040
sir charles kingsford smith his

962
00:37:41,349 --> 00:37:37,760
questions

963
00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:41,359
to the medium and the answers were

964
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:44,000
and just before we go into that uh

965
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:44,880
incidentally

966
00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:47,040
so charles kingsford smith was a famous

967
00:37:54,069 --> 00:37:50,480
australian pioneering aviator

968
00:37:57,829 --> 00:37:54,079
we read on his questions to the medium

969
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:57,839
and the answers were are kingsford smith

970
00:38:05,030 --> 00:38:01,200
and pethi bridge alive answer

971
00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:05,040
no did their plane come down on land

972
00:38:09,589 --> 00:38:08,079
no how far from the shore did it strike

973
00:38:14,069 --> 00:38:09,599
the water

974
00:38:18,069 --> 00:38:14,079
65 miles did the ship sink immediately

975
00:38:21,349 --> 00:38:18,079
no how long did the ship stay afloat

976
00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:21,359
three hours 32 seconds were both men

977
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:22,560
drowned when the

978
00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:25,920
ship sank yes what time did the ship

979
00:38:32,069 --> 00:38:28,000
fall into the water

980
00:38:34,950 --> 00:38:32,079
8 12 am mr beach

981
00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:34,960
says he then produced a map and asked

982
00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:37,040
the medium to mark the spot where the

983
00:38:43,470 --> 00:38:38,400
ship came down

984
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:46,750
17.254 longitude

985
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:50,000
97.727 the wing of the ship

986
00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:53,599
he added would now be found 68 miles

987
00:39:00,069 --> 00:38:58,160
off the shore where it was last seen

988
00:39:03,030 --> 00:39:00,079
now let's quickly look at wikipedia

989
00:39:06,069 --> 00:39:03,040
about sir charles kingsford smith

990
00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:06,079
uh disappearance and death kingsman

991
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:08,320
smith and co-pilot john thompson

992
00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:11,680
tommy pethy bridge were flying the lady

993
00:39:15,670 --> 00:39:13,760
southern cross overnight from

994
00:39:17,670 --> 00:39:15,680
india to singapore as part of their

995
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:17,680
attempt to break the england australia

996
00:39:24,550 --> 00:39:19,920
speed record

997
00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:24,560
goes on when they disappeared

998
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:28,000
over the andaman sea in the early

999
00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:31,440
hours of 8 november 1935.

1000
00:39:36,069 --> 00:39:33,839
aviator jimmy melrose claimed to have

1001
00:39:39,910 --> 00:39:36,079
seen the lady southern cross

1002
00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:39,920
flying in a storm 150 miles offshore

1003
00:39:47,270 --> 00:39:43,520
and 200 feet over the sea with fire

1004
00:39:50,710 --> 00:39:47,280
coming from its exhaust despite a search

1005
00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:50,720
for 74 hours over the bay of bengal by

1006
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:52,720
one person

1007
00:39:56,069 --> 00:39:55,440
their bodies were never recovered 18

1008
00:39:59,190 --> 00:39:56,079
months later

1009
00:40:02,470 --> 00:39:59,200
burmese fishermen found an undercarriage

1010
00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:02,480
leg and wheel with its tyre still

1011
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:03,440
inflated

1012
00:40:11,430 --> 00:40:07,599
which had been washed ashore so

1013
00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:11,440
basically all the insights from the

1014
00:40:15,829 --> 00:40:13,280
psychic were of

1015
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:15,839
particularly no use in this matter and

1016
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:17,200
could have been deduced

1017
00:40:22,710 --> 00:40:20,400
or were completely unverifiable

1018
00:40:25,910 --> 00:40:22,720
and finally we come to the morning

1019
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:25,920
bulletin from rockhampton queensland

1020
00:40:33,910 --> 00:40:30,560
dated the 29th of june 1953.

1021
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:33,920
strange psychic experiment hollywood

1022
00:40:39,829 --> 00:40:37,760
june 28 a strange psychic experiment

1023
00:40:40,710 --> 00:40:39,839
failed yesterday during the funeral

1024
00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:40,720
ceremony

1025
00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:43,200
for a man who had promised that he would

1026
00:40:48,790 --> 00:40:45,599
attempt to come back from the dead

1027
00:40:51,349 --> 00:40:48,800
and knock an object off the top

1028
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:51,359
of his coffin a light plastic cylinder

1029
00:40:55,430 --> 00:40:52,720
stood unmoving

1030
00:40:56,230 --> 00:40:55,440
on the open casket of cyril jarvis

1031
00:40:59,349 --> 00:40:56,240
thorne

1032
00:41:01,910 --> 00:40:59,359
a 53 year old building contractor

1033
00:41:03,109 --> 00:41:01,920
and student of psychic phenomena as

1034
00:41:05,829 --> 00:41:03,119
friends waited

1035
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:05,839
silently for more than five minutes for

1036
00:41:10,390 --> 00:41:07,359
something to happen

1037
00:41:13,589 --> 00:41:10,400
thorne took his own life last tuesday

1038
00:41:16,710 --> 00:41:13,599
by inhaling carbon monoxide gas

1039
00:41:19,990 --> 00:41:16,720
he left several notes one asking that

1040
00:41:22,550 --> 00:41:20,000
quote some light tall object be

1041
00:41:23,670 --> 00:41:22,560
placed on top of the coffin in full view

1042
00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:23,680
of everyone

1043
00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:26,960
and i will try to knock it off if i can

1044
00:41:32,230 --> 00:41:29,440
if i don't succeed it will prove nothing

1045
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:32,240
to those of you who do not understand

1046
00:41:38,309 --> 00:41:35,520
if i do it will prove much

1047
00:41:40,230 --> 00:41:38,319
then quote the experiment and funeral

1048
00:41:42,790 --> 00:41:40,240
service were conducted

1049
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:42,800
in keeping with thorne's instructions by

1050
00:41:47,190 --> 00:41:43,920
dr hereward

1051
00:41:50,630 --> 00:41:47,200
carrington of the american psychic

1052
00:41:54,150 --> 00:41:50,640
institute 40 witnesses waited in silence

1053
00:41:57,270 --> 00:41:54,160
as dr carrington said psy

1054
00:41:58,390 --> 00:41:57,280
we will now ask you to try to influence

1055
00:42:01,750 --> 00:41:58,400
the object

1056
00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:01,760
as you said you would try psy

1057
00:42:05,349 --> 00:42:04,560
there was another silent weight but the

1058
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:05,359
cylinder

1059
00:42:09,550 --> 00:42:08,480
on the coffin remained

1060
00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:09,560
motionless

1061
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:15,670
and that was looking for references to

1062
00:42:19,990 --> 00:42:17,280
the word psychic

1063
00:42:20,710 --> 00:42:20,000
and the word america or was it american

1064
00:42:23,270 --> 00:42:20,720
doesn't matter

1065
00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:23,280
in the trove archives what an

1066
00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:24,560
interesting

1067
00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:26,720
list of results it returned

1068
00:42:30,069 --> 00:42:28,319
[Music]

1069
00:42:32,309 --> 00:42:30,079
and next week on the show we will be

1070
00:42:38,550 --> 00:42:32,319
looking for references to

1071
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:41,589
and we'll hear the story of cricket

1072
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:44,560
the psychic duck

1073
00:42:47,750 --> 00:42:46,079
[Music]

1074
00:42:50,829 --> 00:42:47,760
and once again thanks to those good

1075
00:42:56,390 --> 00:42:53,510
trove.nla.gov dot a u

1076
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:56,400
your online resource for access to

1077
00:43:00,069 --> 00:42:58,640
australian archives of newspapers and

1078
00:43:21,810 --> 00:43:00,079
journals

1079
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:23,349
[Applause]

1080
00:43:26,550 --> 00:43:24,960
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1081
00:43:29,829 --> 00:43:26,560
zone and thank you again

1082
00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:29,839
to shelley stockin you will truly be

1083
00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:31,760
missed

1084
00:43:35,109 --> 00:43:33,599
and the easter egg on today's show will

1085
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:35,119
be a little message

1086
00:43:41,270 --> 00:43:37,520
shelley sent to the skeptic zone when we

1087
00:43:43,349 --> 00:43:41,280
were celebrating our 500th episode

1088
00:43:44,950 --> 00:43:43,359
coming up on next week's show as

1089
00:43:48,069 --> 00:43:44,960
mentioned in the trove segment we're

1090
00:43:51,349 --> 00:43:48,079
going to be looking at psychic animals

1091
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:51,359
including cricket the psychic duck and

1092
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:52,720
well the rest

1093
00:43:56,550 --> 00:43:54,400
is a bit of a mystery we'll have to all

1094
00:43:58,230 --> 00:43:56,560
wait until next week to find out

1095
00:44:00,150 --> 00:43:58,240
but for this week this is richard

1096
00:44:05,270 --> 00:44:00,160
saunders signing off from sydney

1097
00:44:08,550 --> 00:44:07,030
you've been listening to the skeptic

1098
00:44:11,710 --> 00:44:08,560
zone podcast

1099
00:44:13,109 --> 00:44:11,720
please visit our website at

1100
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:13,119
www.skepticzone.tv

1101
00:44:18,150 --> 00:44:16,160
for show notes contacts and to access

1102
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:18,160
the back catalog of episodes

1103
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:21,680
going back to 2008. you can follow the

1104
00:44:27,190 --> 00:44:23,760
skeptic's own podcast on twitter

1105
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:27,200
at skepticzone visit our facebook page

1106
00:44:32,150 --> 00:44:30,800
or leave a review on itunes you can also

1107
00:44:35,349 --> 00:44:32,160
support the skeptic zone

1108
00:44:36,150 --> 00:44:35,359
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1109
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:36,160
podcast

1110
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:39,040
is an independent production the views

1111
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:40,800
and opinions expressed on the skeptic

1112
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:41,280
zone

1113
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:43,280
are not necessarily those of australian

1114
00:44:57,990 --> 00:44:44,480
skeptics or

1115
00:45:02,710 --> 00:45:00,390
500 episodes ago when richard took the

1116
00:45:04,150 --> 00:45:02,720
mic he made a little podcast thing which

1117
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:04,160
people seem to like

1118
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:05,920
now here we are much later and the

1119
00:45:09,990 --> 00:45:07,760
skeptic zone's still rocking